Transwomen: The New Misogynists

I am a woman-born woman. An adult female. I have two X chromosomes, a vagina and, until menopause, a menstrual cycle. I’m not unusual in this: in fact, there are roughly 3.52 billion of us in the world right now. These are not opinions; they are statements of biological fact. That biology may not define a woman in totality – she has a vagina, she is not a vagina – but it is fundamental to what a woman is. Our biology and our being female are intertwined. As is the biology of men with their being male: a penis and testicles are the biological markers of maleness.

These are neither new nor controversial statements, yet to the emergent trans community, giddy on its own sense of entitlement, they are blasphemous hate speech. Transwomen are particularly vociferous in their responses. They call women, like myself, bigots, haters, TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist), homophobes, transphobes, and an entire roster of expletives. We’re threatened with assault and murder, and told transwomen can’t wait to rape us. Transwomen are calling for genocide and torture of women. (No, I’m not exaggerating. Here and here are just some examples.) Why? Because we told them about the biological basis to sex differentiation: women have two X chromosomes and a vagina; men have an X and a Y chromosome and a penis.

“But gender!” say the transwomen, as though feminists haven’t been deconstructing it since long before they were born. Yes, gender: the socio-sexual constructs we conflate with sex to inadequately explain our differences. The gender argument intrigues me because of the cherry-picking attitude transwomen take to it. They rapidly take on the prettiness of femininity – the shoes, the makeup, the clothes, and the hair – yet leave aside other traits commonly associated with the gender: empathy, compassion, nurturance, receptivity. Those aspects of the gentler sex are discarded because they don’t fit in with the behaviour of men (and transwomen are men) who’ve grown up and lived in a patriarchal society that tells them whatever they want, they should have. This is our cultural narrative: men demand and women defer. Just because they’re wearing dresses, they behave no differently.

Men want to have the right to choose the gender with which they identify and to be able to assert that right. For that is what transwomen’s rights are: men’s rights to identify and behave as they wish. To assume that this right is more worthy of support or more important than the rights of the women with whom transwomen say they identify is misogynist and demonstrates a lack of compassion and deep ignorance of what women deal with in their everyday lives – good and bad. It stems from a position of entitlement and assumption of superiority over women. Before declaring themselves transwomen and expecting to be welcomed by women, I wish they would think about what being a woman actually means. There is more embedded in gender than a change of outfit.

The most public demand is access to women-only spaces. This began – and continues – with transwomen’s demands to use women’s toilets. Women are expected to accept them – welcome them, even – or be vilified as anti, phobic, exclusionary deniers of rights. It’s an odd spot for a battleground, a public toilet. Or, perhaps not, given that it’s both public and private, representative of gender segregation, and a separation of the sexes that is a mass cultural norm to the point of invisibility. Only, now, it’s highly visible.

Transwomen want access to women-only domestic violence shelters and rape crisis centres, either blithely or willfully ignorant of the effect this may have on women using the facilities. Occasionally they want to work in them (a transwomen who wanted to volunteer at Vancouver Rape Relief forced them into a 12-year legal battle when they refused – time and money that could have been spent helping rape victims), but most want to know they can use them. The problem, as if it needs stating, is that these shelters are for women and transwomen are men. The women and children there are at their most vulnerable, many are terrified, and all have suffered abuse by men. A frightened child in a rape crisis centre isn’t going to look at a transwoman and see trans-inclusive ideology. She’s going to see a man in a dress and the last time she saw a man he raped her. If transwomen can’t see why that would be distressing and, therefore, why their presence isn’t welcome in facilities for vulnerable women – or, indeed, any women-only spaces – they’re demonstrating why women don’t want to share our spaces with them.

This encroachment on women’s spaces is coupled with a colonisation of our bodies. In a reduction of women to a set of holes that combines misogyny, porn and rape culture in one, trans terminology appropriates “vagina” for post-operative transsexuals while gifting “front hole” to women as a term for their vaginas. This dehumanising practice is backed by The Human Rights Campaign Foundation document, Safer Sex for Trans Bodies.

If women disagree with transwomen, they are told they are aggressive – violent, even. I’ve yet to see any evidence of violence against transwomen by women and, if we’re aggressive, it’s because we’re rightfully pissed off. The transwomen who attempt to silence us and claim our bodies and spaces as their own seek to remove us both discursively and literally. They attempt to both devalue and claim for themselves all that is female – be it the word “woman”, our bodies, or our spaces. We cannot concede to their demands because, by doing so, is to agree that all that we are is only worth what little value they attribute to it. Instead, we need to guard our bodies and lives against this new misogyny.

114 Replies to “Transwomen: The New Misogynists”

  1. So clearly and beautifully written Kate – thank you – it’s simple, really, when you lay it out like this!

  2. Wonderfully written. I would just clarify one thing – the man who sued VRR wasn’t prohibited from working there, they just wouldn’t allow him the job of personally counselling female rape victims. *That* is what he was dragging them through a 12-year lawsuit over.

  3. Trans woman & men suffer enough hostility as is. Some very deep self analysis needs to be done there apparently to get over that .
    Enough w/ this hate ,Eye for an Eye due to certain few NEVER works out.🙅 Watch a legit non-bias documentary on it ,or better yet go & meet these people that are so ignorantly villainized like ALL minorities ARE Universally. Break that bubble that compartmentalizes you.
    Trans gender/sexuality is Nothing new…existed since beginning of civilization. Even while History has been manipulated by Patriarchal society, they couldn’t hide EVERY thing! So Research it..Greek ,Roman, Native American & Judeo-Christian have figures of ‘2 genders’ in scripture. In old Hollywood Marlene Dietrich & Ed Wood brought term to light back then as well. AGAIN nothing new or to be feared only fear itself.
    Trans women DO NOT look like Men in a dresses😂they look better than most ‘natural born’ quite honestly! Clearly there’s no interactive evidence there. So that whole view as them being frightening to children is absurd.😃 Kids only mock what their elders teach them.So shame on them. My young daughter loves Rupaul for ex. & totally understands his trans sexuality in Drag. We love comedy along w/ fashion & that’s all there is to it.Try watching his show & you will hear how they have been traumatized by others hate ,even their family members. Smh😔
    I have met those that have survived the rape & violence towards them simply due to how they were born. It’s especially hard for trans women due to male driven homophobia & many even have attempted self-mutilation in their desperation. Suicide is VERY common as is being assaulted. For ex. Take note in how they are being murdered in New Orleans for example. Google/Bing it. Videos of women violence against Trans women even on you tube. Truly disgusting & revolting.😟 Many in vids say they deserve it for trying to be competition in regards to attracting men. NOW THEY are Mysognist women. Which sadly,also common.
    It’s very real & only worsened by women supporting such ignorance when we should help ALL afflicted by Patriarchal society as we have been. 👉Those women are reason Mysogny thrives for they advocate it themselves. Likewise w/ any ‘ism’ ,only around due to many cooperations in particular w/ in their own community.
    As a Feminist ,I know that ideology of compartmentalizing the masses is created by 1% since middle/dark ages. Great way to keep us down & confused.🙈
    Pink=Girl Blue=Boy is Bulls#$! 😬
    Thanks to science we have seen how even color therapy has been manipulated to control & manipulate us. In MRI certain sections of brain activate w/ certain colors. Color triggers responses in our central nervous system, and affects our cerebral cortex. 📚For ex.Pink stimulates the frontal lobe which is in charge of emotion & memory. Whereas Blue stimulates the temporal lobe which is in charge of comprehension of language & information retrieval. No surprise that the 1% wants 2 keep us women submissive & emotional meanwhile keep men interested in intellectual pursuits. 😑They most notably exploit combination of red & yellow (that stimulates appetite) for commercial gain as seen in fast food chains & tourist restauranting. Many mean well if interested in a kind of justice but darkened by misinformation & assumption. This has to stop . We have to unte against the machine. For they Know all to well ,divided we Fall.
    Open Mind= Open to Compassion & Understanding is key to living harmoniously in general. May we all be blessed w/ greater awareness & unity. We Shall Overcome✊

    1. You say ” Trans women DO NOT look like Men in a dresses😂they look better than most ‘natural born’ quite honestly! ”

      You’re NOT a Feminist.


    2. 1)They sure look like men to me.
      2)Yes some of them are lovely people.
      3)Its not the machine we are up against, its male supremacy.
      4)You are obviously a bloke.

    3. Considering that pink and blue have only recently begun to denote “girl and boy” and that less than 200 years ago it was blue for girls and pink for boys, and that those colours are really only relevant in Western cultures, could you Dianna, explain how the human brain has change so quickly?

    4. Trans women do not look like women in dresses, they look better than most women, you say? Wow. What does that mean?

      No, please, tell all the women how much better looking the men are than they are, and why they need to do what this loud and creepy, and often mentally ill minority of people demand of women.

      You speak of compassion. Please.

  4. Yeah, its weird how hostile people get when you tell them their very existence is blasphemy. Gee, never saw that coming. Yes, they are hostile to you because you are hostile to them. Its a two way street. I have not faced any hostility from trans-women. Would you like to know why? Because I dont treat them like crap. You deliberately exclude them. Im just a plain, ol woman, but if you treated me the way you treat them, believe me, I’d punch you, too. You made a few semi-valid points about battered women’s shelters, but we have common sense, all that stuff can be worked out. You lack the willingness to try. It sounds to me as though you see them as some kind of threat, though I cannot fathom why. Those tweets? Gimme a break, thats payback talk for the hurtful way you treat them. All I can say, is dont be a TERF.

    1. Telling someone the truth and explaining basic biology that one should have learned in high school is not being hostile. No one should be forced to play along wit another’s delusions. Transwomen are male. That is not hostility. Its a biological fact.

      1. Biology is not as basic as what is taught in high school. The ‘Basic’ model is flawed on many levels, not least where it is taught that the sex chromosones XX XY determine what a person is born as. Newsflash: They don’t

      2. This whole “biological fact” idea really bugs me because it just isn’t true. Contemporary academia clearly distances both sex and gender from biology and, even if it didn’t, science itself disagrees on the whole two sex’s thing.

        Accepting Simone de Beauvoir’s (and 98% of all modern feminist theorists assertion that gender is a social construction) one must recognize that then gender is divorced from sex and can be created upon any “body” even one that does not have the markers for gender, as a wholly social creation. Further, then one must question why sex holds significance as a category at all and realize that it only holds significance in its relation to gender i.e. it is a gendered category. Through this basic line of thought (which I am surely not doing justice) it should become clear that the “biological fact” idea which seems so “common sense” is not common sense at all but is, instead, a position (born out of the patriarchy – but let me not get into that) that is highly political but that is simply positioned as universal truth. The point of the matter is that BOTH sex and gender are social constructions created to prop up the patriarchy.

        There is large scale cultural evidence for this ( as well as scientific backing (Fausto-Sterling, A. (1987). Society Writes Biology/Biology Constructs Gender. Daedalus, 61-76.) and a very malleable history of gender (Cott, N. F. (1978). An Interpretation of Victorian Sexual Ideology, 1790-1850. Signs, 219-236.)

        The TERF position (because that is what it is) is built upon no such evidence and its cries to “science” are highly outdated – I am sorry.

        1. “Further, then one must question why sex holds significance as a category at all and realize that it only holds significance in its relation to gender i.e. it is a gendered category.”
          No, sex as a category holds significance in its relation to REPRODUCTION. But yeah, let’s call women “egg producers” and men, “sperm maker”. That’s much better, isn’t it?

    2. You seem to be in some sort of denial.
      Saying that “its common sense… stuff that can be worked out” when you’ve just read that it took many years of legal challenge ….
      You’ve got your head in the sand.

      Threatening to punch women is something I’m not used to hearing from women.
      If you are a woman, I suggest that you educate yourself more about this.

      Become a radical feminist and punch the people who deserve it: the people who actually rape and murder women girls and little boys – the perpetrators of violence are men.

      Men in frocks are still men.
      Men who are castrated are still men.
      Men on hormone therapy are still men.
      Male entitlement is an expression of masculunity.
      Male self absorption is an expression of masculinity.
      Male sexuality as narcissistic preoccupation in an expression of masculinity.

      Masculinity is the social expression of male supremacy.

      Gender is the ideology that justifies male supremacy.

      Abolish gender.
      Womens liberation is a reality that will happen.

    3. Melissa, can you give some concrete examples of what you mean by hostility and exclusion? What things are male-to-trans excluded from? You have all this righteous anger and justification for male-to-trans people’s threats of violence against women but you are speaking in the abstract. You say we treat male-to-trans people as crap, but you don’t give one example. You have, on the other hand been given several examples of threats of violence made by male-to-trans people. I know that a man who claims to be a woman because he “feels” like a woman, is not a woman. In the same way I know that if he told me he was a giraffe, he would be incorrect. Now, you and the transactivists get upset when I, a woman, refuse to participate in yours and his delusion that he is a woman. Think about that. Also, consider if you had a rail-thin friend who weighed 40kg and told you she felt like she was actually an obese woman. Would you help her set up a crowd fund for lap band surgery? Would you fight for her to get free diet pills? Would you fight against anyone who said “actually, that woman appears to have an eating disorder brought about by unrealistic perceptions of her body”? Or would you try to get her help? Try to help her deal with whatever is making her not happy in her own body? Just sit quietly and think about that.

    4. How many years have women been told if only we were nicer that things would be fine, while men rape and kill us and destroy the planet. And yes trans males commit crimes at the same rate as other men.

    5. Trans women are not women. They are trans women. Demanding women do everything they tell us, an already oppressed and severely abused class of people, is wrong.

      We don’t label them and demand they be a certain way to make us feel better. They are clearly unhappy as what they are, which is trans. If they could be proud of being trans there would be no problem.

      No one telling a woman to accept a dick as being a woman’s has any credibility. Women are hurt by dicks. [People with dicks hurt women. Should I repeat that a few thousand times for you?

      1. I’ll just leave this here. Transgender is an adjective to describe the woman. A transgender woman is a woman, she is just part of a distinction within the group of women.

  5. As a cis male, I feel totally unqualified to figure out if transwomen are natural women who happen to have a penis or if they are misogynist men flaunting their privilege to choose to be women and go in women-only spaces and further traumatize rape victims etc. But just from knowing trans people I have come to take them at their word. I am definitely for dismantling the societal concepts of gender as much as possible but I also think it is important to listen to people with empathy and respect how they want to be treated. And how do trans men fit in to this picture? They are deluded women identifying with their oppressors? Nothing is so easy, so black and white.

  6. Ms. Gould,A superb statement. It is true and I deplore this trend of entitlement they feel they are owed.

  7. This is excellently written. I wish I was able to clearly express these ideas in a similar way. Though I find myself silent many times because I have been the center of the trans-activists attacks, received hate mail that included death and rape threats, was doxxed, and no longer have the energy to even engage on this topic.

    1. I’m so sorry that you’ve been driven to the point of being silenced. I think women need to support each other so we can keep speaking out and resisting. Hang in there!

    1. I don’t think that transmen pose any threat to women so don’t feel they need to be addressed as a subject in the way that transwomen do. Perhaps you could write about them from a man’s perspective? I’m curious to know what men think about transmen.

      1. I know at least one “Transman” and do not find it to be a problem in any respect. I have my own theories regarding “Trans” and the phenomenon it represents, but Trans men are just people who want to be men. If you didn’t know – you wouldn’t guess (unless they told you). Identity politics is a whole other issue….

  8. Love the straight up no nonsense approach here. Given that you get just as burned for saying that trans women are trans woman as for saying they are men you might as well go for it. The whole thing is utterly ridiculous

    How on earth we’ve got to a point to where were being told its progressive to give up women’s spaces to men is beyond me. When rapists can identify as women and demand access to women’s prisons it’s become a tragic farce.

  9. Excellent post. Thanks for this very clear statement. None of this would matter very much if legislators were not taking all this trans nonsense at face value and writing provisions into law which I am convinced they have not thought through. To focus on just one aspect, does the majority of the population understand what is happening to children and teenagers who are diagnosed as trans? Puberty blockers, binding, double mastectomy for cosmetic reasons only, cosmetic surgeons trying to give healthy girls/women a poor approximation of a penis and healthy boys/men what they call a vagina but is really an open wound that needs to be dilated several times a day so it doesn’t heal up. They will become sterile long before their brains have finished developing. Detransitioning is like leaving a cult and results in the same type of shunning. It is all madness and it’s proceeding so fast. Time to speak up.

  10. Wow Kate, I really wish you had put a bit more effort into this article, because then maybe I’d have to put in some actual effort into debunking it. Instead, this will be like a walk in the park.

    Okay so first of all, the whole biology thing. Yes, trans women are male as far as their chromosomes and genitals go. We wish we could change that, but unfortunately, we can’t. But that’s not all there is to human existence. You don’t see yourself as a woman just because you were born with a vagina, and society told you that means you’re a woman. You see yourself as a woman because it was encoded, in your brain, before you were born, that you are a woman, and that your body should have breasts, vagina, ovaries and so on. If it were any different, your brain would perceive those parts of your body as foreign objects.
    And of course that’s exactly what happens with trans people- their brain gets encoded differently from the course in which their body developed. This is what causes gender dysphoria, aka the intense feeling of discomfort and disassociation form person’s own body. Interestingly, a number of cases occurred where a person without gender dysphoria was administered body-altering hormone therapy, and then when their body started to change, those people people developed gender dysphoria. A relatively common example of this is when cis women start thinking how much easier their life might be if they were male, confuse that for being trans, start taking HRT and develop dysphoria. And for the record, dysphoria is something I’d never wish on anyone. But anyway, as medicine so far has no way of changing the person’s brain so they stop feeling that way, the best we can do is to let them alter their bodies so they stop feeling like shit all the time, and it works.

    Moving on, about “hateful” and “aggressive” trans women… Gee, when you constantly treat someone like shit and invalidate their very identity, do you expect them to act like you’re their best friend? Those people are rightfully pissed at you and people like you. That’s not to say, however, that some trans people and trans activists don’t act like stupid little shits. They do. The keyword here, however, is “some”. When you clash with SJWs online, it’s guaranteed that there will be some idiot who’s gonna scream death treats. That doesn’t mean they represent the entire trans population, and for that matter, I could easily find dozens posts written by feminists screaming shit like “kill all men” and the like. How is that any better, exactly? Oh, and just as a side note, people who write crap like “Die cis scum” are usually edgy teenage transtrenders who just wanna be “different” and will probably grow out of it in a few years. Hell, literally, even the person who was the poster child for the “die cis scum” phrase a few years back grew out of it eventually.

    Now we get to how trans women look. First of all, yes, it is true that many trans women try to copy the social stereotype idea of “femininity”. But, to an extent, this is true for all cis women as well. Your average cis woman will quite probably adhere to those same gender norms as well- because she wants the society to see her as a “proper” woman. I mean, I’m sorry if you haven’t noticed, but most cis women also wear dresses, heels, makeup and so on. They don’t do this because of any biological nature, I hope we can agree, but because society taught them that’s how women are supposed to look.
    Trans women, of course, have the same urge- they want society to see them as “proper” women, so they adopt the gender norms. Also, as society often discredits them as women, they become inclined to double-down on following every stupid stereotype as a way of trying to “prove” their womanhood to others. I mean, don’t get me wrong, this pisses me off as well. Nothing makes my head hurt more than hearing a trans woman say “I always knew I was a girl because I liked pink and dolls.”. Like, that literally has nothing to do with it, you just adopted those gender norms because you wanted others to see you as a girl! Unfortunately, things like these are very hard to explain to average people who don’t care and don’t know anything about sociology.

    As for how trans women act, you say they miss: “empathy, compassion, nurturance, receptivity”… Funny, I could say you miss some of that empathy and compassion too, when you treat trans women this way, but that’s besides the point. Here’s the deal: do you think all those “feminine” traits come from some dark magic produced in your ovaries? Because they don’t. I mean, technically, some of it comes from the ovaries, but it’s certainly not dark magic. There are two basic things which control human behavior and emotions. First is the setup of the brain itself, which is somewhat different between males and females, but as I’ve said earlier, the brains of trans women are closer to those of females than to those of males. This makes many trans women a lot more timid and emotional than your average man, even before HRT. Most trans women say that they always fleet disassociated from men, their interests and their behavior.
    The second thing is the hormones. You know, that thing whose levels change during your menstrual cycle and cause PMS and stuff? Yeah, that. When you change a person’s hormonal levels, that person will start acting differently. So even if trans women don’t have all those “feminine” traits from the start, they will develop them eventually. I have heard dozens of stories from trans men who started taking Testosterone, and after a while, they simply couldn’t cry when they got sad anymore. Even when they felt completely miserable, the tears just wouldn’t come out of their eyes. That’s just one of the many things that hormones do to you. And yeah, I can agree that the experiences of trans women will be somewhat different than the experiences of cis women, like if you grew up as a boy and they taught you your whole life to suppress your feelings, it’s probably gonna take some time to adapt to the idea that, now that you live as a woman, you can let those feelings out. But you will adapt.
    Moreover, this is of course an usual radfem mistake, but you seem to act like all men are the same and like all women are the same. Like they have the same experiences, emotions, psychology. This is of course wrong. There are timid, fragile men. There are strong, aggressive women. I’ve personally met a decent number of butch lesbians who could not only break you in half with one hand, but would do it too if you pissed them off. There are all kinds of cis women, and not all of them have “empathy, compassion, nurturance, receptivity” as their very strong traits. Are you saying that they’re less women because of that?

    Now that we’ve covered all the “theory”, let’s move on to the REAL issue! Those damn bathrooms, and shelters, and whatever! First of all, it’s ridiculous to me how you assume that all trans women look like “men in dresses”, like you could spot any trans woman a mile away. This is ridiculously misinformed. You know who are the only trans women you spot? Just a small percentage of us who still don’t pass so well. I’m going to use an anecdote here, but bear with me… Pre-HRT, I already had a relatively feminine face and long flowing hair. I’d usually wear skinny jeans and oversize T-shirts. You know *why* I started going to the women’s toilet? Because when I went to the damn men’s toilet every other time someone would be like “Hey girl what are you doing here, women’s toilet is that way, get the fuck out”. So I started going to the women’s toilet and no one complained.
    Ah, how shallow is the social idea of femininity! Literally, as long as the person looks feminine *enough*, no one will even notice they’re trans. You’ve probably been in the same toilet as a trans woman a dozen times already and you never even noticed. Unless of course you’re a legitimately disturbed person who stares at every little physical feature of people around her in hopes of noticing someone’s trans.
    The REAL discussion about women’s toilets is as follows: should a trans woman be allowed in there if she still doesn’t pass? This is a tough question. As seen from that anecdote before, personally I used common sense- I went to the women’s toilet when people started telling me I should go to the women’s toilet. Howeve, I was lucky- I pass pretty well. Some trans women, however, are not so fortunate. No matter how much HRT they take, no matter how much money they spend on plastic surgeries, it will still be noticeable that they were born male. So what with them? Do they never get to enter women’s restrooms? And I do? Why? Just because I look a little prettier, a little more feminine? If you think about it that way, that would be a horrible injustice.

    The situation is a bit more complicated when it comes to shelters, of course. Women there have already been hurt and are therefore more vulnerable. But, trans women who seek shelter have also been hurt- as you should know, trans women are raped and even murdered extremely often. Even if you refuse to call them women, these *people*, they need protection. They didn’t come to the shelter with the intent of abusing someone, they came because they ran away from their abusers. Just as trans women who go to the toilet didn’t come there to abuse people, but to pee. To claim differently is a hateful lie, not supported by any existing statistics. Really, how many cases of a trans woman doing something inappropriate in a restroom ever happened? Trans women, generally, don’t go doing stupid shit to people because we’re constantly afraid that people, and society in general, will hurt us.
    And again with the shelters, you make the wrong assumptions that all trans women look like men in dresses. They don’t. Some look incredibly hot. Most look like average women. Some don’t look so good. So for an example, if a completely passing trans woman who way abused by her boyfriend comes to your shelter, how are the other women supposed to know? And why would they need to know? Are you gonna come before other women in the shelter and be like “This is Jane, she will be staying here from today on, and she has A BIG FUCKING DICK.”? Why do you assume that just by the trait of being born male, this person has an inherent urge to hurt women? Why do you treat all trans women like that? Oh wait, I forgot, that’s just your radfem logic 101, that all men are violent rapists and nothing more, right? And you don’t just think that yourself, no, you’re convinced that all women in the world feel the same, that they all live in the constant fear of male existence. You act like all women in the world, like you, are convinced that just because someone has a penis, all they are is an uncontrollable rape machine. And that’s just fucking delusional. Moreover, if we take pre-existing dysphoria and combine it with HRT which kills libido AND creates erectile dysfunction, most trans women literally don’t even have the urge or working “equipment” to perform an active role in coitus, let alone rape anyone.
    And I mean, if you still can’t get any of this through your skull- fine! Then simply create a separate room in your shelter dedicated to trans women! To be fair, trans women do have certain different needs from cis women, so they could probably use different treatment, properly informed therapists and so on.

    To conclude this wall of text here, It’s incredibly amusing how you completely left out trans men form this whole article. What are they to you, I wonder? Traitors to women? Poor, deluded souls who decided to become the oppressor? At the end of the day, whatever you may think of them, in practice you simply don’t care. You’re only obsessed with trans women, due to your messed up views of men, maleness and masculinity. I don’t know who hurt you lady, but you obviously have some really deep psychological problem related to penises. It could be just due to radfem indoctrination, but you obviously perceive every penis, no matter who it belongs to, as an imminent threat and an inherent rape tool. And of course, that’s why you’re afraid of trans women, even though many of them hate their own genitals so much they’re willing to cut them off. Freud would have to say something about you, I think.

    1. Luna, you do know no one is going to read that insanely long post of yours, right? You can be an apologist somewhere else. Kate G. has written an excellent blog post even if you don’t like it. But funny you mention Freud at the end of your rant. I do believe he would call your reply, projection.

      1. Luna, great points here, Bravo for your diversity and empathy to all.

        Susan, I have read the long post and suggest you read it as well, this is all too informative, especially the comments and replies to the post.

        It could be used as a modern sociology class.

      2. I read every word. Why wouldn’t you, if this was a discussion that interested you. And by the way it was very well written and clear and I agree with all of it. I was once transphobic, I’m sorry, and what changed my mind was reading the actual voices of trans women.

    2. Luna then address the issue of male violence on trans men, by attacking those who attack you, some men, not women who are also victimized by some men, and by advocating for trans shelters, not forcing yourselves, unwanted into a safe space for traumatized woman and children. You are the one who is lacking empathy if you can’t understand the needs of those women. And yes, women’s groups advocated and worked for decades gaining acceptance and setting up safe spaces for women. Perhaps you should involve yourself in that type of advocacy for safe space for transwomen, instead of feeling it’s your right to appropriate space created by years of advocacy by women for women. That assumption that you are entitled to those safe women spaces, regardless of how it affects those women it serves, is a great example of what the author referred to as male privilege asserting itself.

    3. Luna, I, thank you for your words and the work that you do. Wonderfully written❤. I guess I’m considered cis gender? I prefered to be called, Human

    4. Hey Luna, As you took such trouble with my post, I thought I’d do the same in return.
      This needs a citation: “You see yourself as a woman because it was encoded, in your brain, before you were born, that you are a woman, and that your body should have breasts, vagina, ovaries and so on. If it were any different, your brain would perceive those parts of your body as foreign objects.”
      This needs a citation: “And of course that’s exactly what happens with trans people- their brain gets encoded differently from the course in which their body developed. This is what causes gender dysphoria, aka the intense feeling of discomfort and disassociation form person’s own body.”
      This needs a citation: “a number of cases occurred where a person without gender dysphoria was administered body-altering hormone therapy, and then when their body started to change, those people people developed gender dysphoria.”
      This needs a citation: “A relatively common example of this is when cis women start thinking how much easier their life might be if they were male, confuse that for being trans, start taking HRT and develop dysphoria.”
      This needs a citation: “But anyway, as medicine so far has no way of changing the person’s brain so they stop feeling that way, the best we can do is to let them alter their bodies so they stop feeling like shit all the time, and it works.”
      This needs examples: “dozens posts written by feminists screaming shit like “kill all men” and the like.”
      So is the trans community happy to be represented by these people? They’re highly vocal. If they’re not happy, why don’t they do anything about it?: “The keyword here, however, is “some”.”
      You’re not a woman – cis or otherwise – so you don’t know what we think or feel.
      Don’t presume to know: “Your average cis woman will quite probably adhere to those same gender norms as well- because she wants the society to see her as a “proper” woman.”
      Two things about this statement: It needs citations and it’s entirely reliant on stereotypical concepts of femininity and masculinity: “First is the setup of the brain itself, which is somewhat different between males and females, but as I’ve said earlier, the brains of trans women are closer to those of females than to those of males. This makes many trans women a lot more timid and emotional than your average man, even before HRT. Most trans women say that they always fleet disassociated from men, their interests and their behavior.”
      This entire section needs citations (and not anecdotes about a few friends): “The second thing is the hormones.”
      I recommend you read up on radical feminist literature: “Moreover, this is of course an usual radfem mistake, but you seem to act like all men are the same and like all women are the same.”
      Your bathroom anecdote: the request from women is incredibly simple. If you have a penis, stay out of our bathrooms, rape crisis centres, domestic violence shelters, changing rooms, any space designated as women-only, female-only, girls-only. What enables transwomen to “pass” is complicity by others, children’s and women’s fear of violence if they object to the presence of men, organisation’s fear of discrimination lawsuits by institutions. It’s not the makeup, surgery, hair, HRT, clothes, heels, and your pretty face. Also, in troubles me that, given the context of my remark about transwomen looking like men in dresses (i.e. a terrified child in a shelter), you chose to focus on the appearance of transwomen, apparently giving no thought to what the child might be experiencing. This is indicative of the mentioned lack of empathy.
      Transwomen in shelters: yes, transwomen – like every other person in the world – need safe spaces. However, they need to create their own. This is particularly important if the rates of abuse are as high as you say they are (you need a citation). Yes, transwomen do abuse women in safe spaces. This thread provides examples of just some:
      Your “all men are rapists” section: It may surprise you to know that, no, I don’t think all men are rapists. Just because a man has a penis, doesn’t mean he has the propensity to rape. But some do and women need to be protected by them. Even if one transwoman attacked a woman in a shelter, that is too many. Women have to be guaranteed safety.
      Your closing paragraph: thank you for the psychoanalysis. You’ve saved me a fortune.

    5. I have found that transmen generally adopt trans ideology. They become misogynisitc and begin advocating for the elimination of women’s sports and safe spaces.

    6. A genuinely excellent response from an educated viewpoint. I’m a trans man and I don’t know that much about trans women but I do know what stuff like dysphoria feels like and I can empathise with the women being attacked in this post. Kate clearly can’t put herself in the shoes of a trans woman and imagine what it feels like to be told that you’re not human, that you’re scum and you’re out there to hurt women. I have been told so many times to kill myself because I’m trans (from what I’ve heard trans women get even worse) and it’s just disgusting that people think they can treat other human beings like this. What we do has no effect on this woman so why can’t she just leave us alone?

    7. You admit in your first lines that “transwomen” are men. The rest is just you trying to avoid acknowledging the difference between “sex” and “gender” – skimming the rest just reads like the standard ravings of every self-loathing closeted homosexual man with mummy issues who dresses up in lady-face so as not to admit he wants to kiss boys and to take some misplaced revenge on all the girls who wouldn’t sleep with him when he was dressed up in his Hetero Man costume on account of his screamingly obvious to all but him gayness.

  11. Wow, what an amazing rebuttal, I am truly defeated.
    … Maybe offer some actual arguments next time, eh? My post is long because it needed to be long to cover the topic properly. Kate’s article on the other hand, is weak-ass-shit, comprised of arguments that sound like they were made by a 5-year-old, and non-surprisingly, are the exact same arguments used by conservative Catholics. “All trans women look like men in dresses!”, “Trans women are just rapist men in disguise!”, “Protect the poor, defenseless women from scary tranny rapists!”. During my work as a trans-rights activist, I’ve met dozens upon dozens of trans women. How many have you met, how many do you know personally, how many of their life stories have you listened to? Your image of a trans woman sounds like a poorly drawn, ideologically inspired caricature and nothing more.
    Good lord, I, a trans rights activist, legit believe I could personally come up with better arguments for your shit stance than Kate did.

    1. I, for one, loved your long post and will share it with my friends who support the cause. It is enlightening to hear stories directly from the mouths of transwomen because it helps me to better understand the dysphoria of being born into the wrong body and to be a better supporter. Keep sharing those stories. The closed-minded will either catch up, or be pushed to the side as we fight for freedom. <3

      1. Lori are you also listening to the voices of male-to-trans people who say they don’t believe themselves to be women? Are they less credible to you?

        1. I need this rephrased. “male-to-trans people”. Who exactly are you referring to? Cismen talking about trans women/men? Or transwomen? I read stories and articles from lots of people within the queer community, because I am outside of it and don’t have any personal experience with being a queer person. If you are referring to cismen saying they don’t believe themselves to be women, then, that is obviously clear as identifying as a man or woman is left to an individual.

  12. Kate, Thank you so much for your informed, coherent article. I have sometimes been at a loss as to how to address transgenderism, but it’s funny (not funny) that about 15 years ago, I was attacked by a ‘man in a dress’ in a bathroom. The bathroom door didn’t lock, and I was holding it closed while peeing. Someone entered and pushed on the door; I pushed back. The man in a dress (at least six feet tall) slammed open the door with his foot. I was alone with him. I threatened to call the police, and he took off. It was terrifying. So, are the threats that you and others, like Julie Bindel, are getting.

    As we used to say during the anti-Vietnam War Movement days, ‘keep on keeping on.’

    1. I’m so sorry that happened to you. In all the pushing to get transwomen access to anywhere women go by the trans lobby, legislators and institutions, no one is asking what women think. Take care.

    2. It’s awful that happened to you and I’m very sorry, but the problem with forcing trans women into men’s toilets is that you can’t just do it to trans women, you would have to do it to all trans people. This would mean a person like me needing to use women’s toilets. I’ll tell you now, I work out a lot and am quite muscular, I’m a baritone, I have facial hair and there is nothing about me (possibly my height but that’s a frail thing to go on) that would distinguish me from any other man. The only way you’d be able to check that the men going into women’s toilets were trans men is by checking their genitals, and not only is that a complete breach of a person’s human rights, it wouldn’t work every time because there are trans men with penises. By making people use the bathroom of their chromosomes, you would be forcing people who look just like men (and are men) into women’s spaces, which would just make it easier for cis men to go in there and hurt women. If a rapist could walk into a women’s toilet with the simple excuse of “I’m transgender”, then women would have no hope. I can’t go in women’s toilets because if I did, I would be yelled at and told to leave, which is completely understandable considering I look just like a man and could be harmful. They don’t know that I absolutely love women and would never dream of hurting them. It’s just ridiculous.

  13. Thank you for writing this Kate. Thank you for common sense. After 5000yrs of patriarchy, now this ‘feminarchy’ via subversion and appropriation – it would actually be funny, If it wasn’t so abjectly outrageous!

  14. Luna, jesus. Please learn to write succinctly.

    Now. About gender dysphoria. It may be that some trans people are suffering from a faulty cortical humunculus–i.e., their mental body-map is messed up wrt their sexed body.

    We can all understand and sympathize with that, if/when that’s going on. However:

    1 – Doesn’t make you the other sex. Makes you a person with a body-mapping disorder. (And major surgery seems a draconian way to treat it, but that’s up to you–if you’re a grown-up. Please don’t push children in that direction. Most of them will grow out of their dysphoria.)

    2 – “Trans” is an umbrella term. Not every trans woman has dysphoria.

    3 – At this point the cortical humunculus hypothesis has not really been studied.

    4 – Not all trans women even take hormones. Not all of those who do, become impotent as a result.

    5 – …did I mention the fact that it doesn’t make you the other sex?

    Re the “trans women’s brains are more like female brains” nonsense–no, they’re not. A couple very limited studies showing some white matter (or whatever it was) distribution that was somewhere between average-man and average-woman is hardly conclusive. Any scientist will tell you such results–EVEN IF THEY SHOULD BE REPLICATED IN LARGE STUDIES–don’t say what you’d like them to say–that trans people are definitely “really” the other sex in some vague but essential way.

    In fact, there is no good evidence that male and female brains are different in any essential way apart from areas devoted to reproductive functioning.

    Finally: the hostility and defensiveness on display whenever women simply talk about our bodies, our experiences as female human beings, or dissent, however slightly and gently, from trans dogma, suggests that the contemporary trans movement has become cultish and authoritarian. We’re sick of it.

    P.S. No, trans people aren’t murdered at a higher rate than other groups. And the suicide rates are inflated by at least half.

    1. Okay Lady let’s go by the points…
      1 – It doesn’t make your body the other sex, of course. But if your brain is “wired up” in the same way as the brain of a cis female, then it can be said you have a “female brain”. Besides, I don’t really care about the theoretical discussion on “What are trans people, really?”. If social and medical transition help them cope with their condition, then we should let them do it. I’m also not for letting young children have SRS, and I’m sure most people are against that. A lot of young children display behaviors “atypical” for their gender, that doesn’t make them trans, it just means they haven’t internalized gender norms fully yet. Only the craziest of SJW liberal parents would try to claim such child to be trans. In most cases, if the child is possibly trans, they are only administered hormone blockers to stop puberty, so they can decide when they are older. I sure wish someone offered me that back in the day.

      2 – Trans is NOT an umbrella term and everyone who thinks that way can fuck right off. I don’t know why, but it seems to be the agenda of liberal activists to include everything under the sun under the trans “umbrella”. I even read on the website of goddamn APA that drag queens are also part of it. Can you imagine? Trans people have fought for decades to prove that we’re not the same as crossdressers, and now these dipshits are trying to group us back together again? How would you feel if people started saying, I dunno, that every girl who ever kissed a girl falls under the “lesbian umbrella”, huh?
      And moreover, gender dysphoria is literally the ONLY condition for someone to be trans. If you don’t have dysphoria, you’re not trans, end of story. Call yourself whatever you like but stay the fuck away from our medical condition. If you don’t have dysphoria, you don’t have the same needs as actual trans people, so quit invading our spaces and resources.

      3 – That is a fair point, but right now it’s the best theory we have,

      4 – Yes, I know. Some trans women can’t afford HRT so therefore they can’t be on HRT. However most trans women end up on HRT eventually. And even before that, as I’ve said, I large number of trans women is so dysphoric and disgusted about their genitals that they could never use them to fuck someone. In fact, a decent number of trans women, from my experience, was convinced due to dysphoria that they’re asexual until they started transition.

      5 – Yeah, so? And being male doesn’t make you a born rapist, either. Just because someone has a functioning penis doesn’t mean they have an inherent urge to rape every woman in their vicinity. Proven by: the overwhelming majority of men never raped anyone.

      Male and female brains are different. They are not 100% different, and not every male has a completely “masculine” brain, and not every woman has a completely “feminine” brain, and yet they still identify as men and women. Research has shown that the brains of trans women are always on more on the “feminine” side (while say, the brains of gay men are still on the “masculine” side). I agree that it’s not conclusive, and a lot more research needs to be done in the field, but so far it seems we have reason to believe that there is an inborn, neurological basis for the existence of trans people. It wasn’t “learned”, we didn’t “decide” to just become trans, we were born that way and we’re trying to make the most of it.

      As for the last paragraph, are you fucking kidding me? This article wasn’t talking about “female bodies and experiences”, it was talking about how “all trannies are rapists in dresses and shouldn’t eve allowed anywhere”. I mean really, I’m not say, the kind of idiot who gets pissed because, I dunno, feminist rally decides to wear vagina hats, so I scream “BUT NOT ALL WOMEN HAVE VAGINAS!”. I really am not that kind of person. I understand that not everything needs to cater to trans women. But this article wasn’t about that. It was about claiming that all trans women are a threat. It claims that trans women hate women. Man, I wish I knew how to explain to my girlfriend that I actually secretly hate her this whole time.

      P.S. Yeah, any actual source for that claim, or do you expect me to take your word for it?

      1. Luna, Julia Serano talks about “trans” being an umbrella term in Whipping Girl. Julia. Serano. And I’ve seen a number of trans people and trans activists make a point of “we don’t all have dysphoria!” So I don’t know what to tell you.

        As for male/female brains–a lot has been published about this recently. Cordelia Fine’s books are a good place to start.

        “This article wasn’t talking about “female bodies and experiences”, it was talking about how “all trannies are rapists in dresses and shouldn’t eve allowed anywhere”.”

        No, it really wasn’t saying that. I think youfelt threatened–which is a perfectly understandable response btw, not putting you down for it–and read into it something that isn’t there.

        The problem as I see it is that women and girls can’t tell the difference, by looking, between men who are a threat and men who aren’t. It’s the old Shrodinger’s Rapist dilemma (google if you haven’t heard of it.)

        And laws that make womanhood simply a matter of self-declaration put women in a position where they have to accept male-bodied people in private spaces (and in sports!) And if they object, they’re called bigots.

        The problem imo isn’t trans people who are just trying to live their lives and be happy. It’s aggessive current trans ideology.

  15. No. I don’t know all of your -isms and -rics, but I know when I read someone dressing up hate. I know when I see disenfranchised people lapping it up because they’ve given up on becoming something better. My heart goes out to you, to help you see that creating wounds will never help you heal your own.

  16. Holy Sh*t, you know as an artist raised by artists, I didn’t believe in a generation gap until the gradual realization that there is , to some degree, an unavoidable poisoning of the mind by the time and place of the culture that we were socialized within, even if you worked to free yourselves. I respect the amount of openness i was given, to explore what it means to be alive, but this inflexibility, inability to let go and open more, it all sounds no different than listening to Archie Bunker. You don’t see it, you are in it. This is not common sense, this is fear, a closing of the heart. Often from people who took us as far as they could go, but could go no further. I am free enough of these chains of fear to see the pain caused by that fear. There are some that blaze trails, for more to come and wander deeper into the forest of an open heart… what do we get? it is less unknown to us, less scary perhaps, but we get to look around and see ever more pain people cause to each other. WHat do we do with us? Maybe our grandchildren will know.

  17. I really enjoyed your post. Recently a women-only spa in Canada (Body Blitz) has gone under-fire because they do not allow the male-genitalia in the spa. The transwomen in the community are outrage. OF Course! Here is the deal. They believe they can run a business down the to ground because they can’t have their way. How about, you make your own spa? Or how about, get surgery and remove it. . Stop thinking you can control every single thing.

    1. I’ve been reading about that. Women are so pissed off, but the threat of lawsuits by transwomen may stop Body Blitz from taking action. The same has happened to the University of Victoria’s women’s centre. It’s been taken over by a transwomen who’s been putting naked pictures of himself in the centre’s newsletter. The university can’t do anything because they’re officially bound to be trans inclusive.

  18. LOL this is honestly trash. “Trans people are the bad guys!” Says the bitch who just wrote an article about how much she hates them. Anyway TERF, homophobe, and transphobes aren’t expletives, they’re accurate descriptors of harmful attitudes toward the lgbt community. Just say you hate queer people and go sis >.>

  19. Have you ever actually spoken to a trans woman? This is a silly and cruel article. At a crucial time for women’s rights, when the US President advocates sexual assault and the UK government is leaning on the anti-choice DUP, you’ve decided to make an enemy out of a tiny social group that faces violence and persecution every day. I’m seventeen and I can tell you that your view is already outdated. Feminists of my generation are going to fight alongside trans women, not against them. I really hope that you lose this regressive attitude and join us one day.

    1. Eleanor, what on earth are you talking about? “Regressive”? How about you do some thinking about transactivism and see where true feminism fits in? Why are you supporting men’s feelings over women’s rights to safety and to their own bodies? How on earth can you possibly think that is feminism? Do you not realise how homophobic the transactivist cult is? Just think about it for a while. If you want to support men and the expense of women go ahead but find another word to call yourself because what you’re doing is not feminism. Stop being a cliched lazy child and make up your own word.

  20. I don’t have the time to explain just how wrong you are, and yes, trans exclusionary feminism is a form of transphobia. Congratulations, you were born with a vagina. is the entire point of feminism not equality?

    1. Sasha no. Equality is not the entire point of feminism. Feminism is about liberation from gender and the other social and economic structures that oppress women and minority groups. It’s about dismantling gender altogether. Biology is not transphobic. It’s reality.

  21. I’m a female by birth, but really don’t care what you call me. As long as it’s not lady or woman. I find them annoying. I’m more gender neutral asexual. Genitals bother me no matter who has them or which they’re expected to be.

    But that pamphlet you posted. That’s not meant for cisgender women… that’s a means to differentiate between transgender men who are preop, thus having the female genitalia they don’t associate with, and post op transgender women, who had chosen to have the genitals they felt they should be born with. A man having a vagina might be offensive, but a woman who chose to have one WANTS to have it called that. They meant no insult to women who want their bits.

    I do agree that violence towards others, no matter what their stance, is wrong. It sends the wrong message. They’re looking for acceptance with violence, which is the metaphorical fighting fire with petrol.

    I think both sides of this debate are overly inflammatory, but then I think that’s just human nature, to hate and hurt anyone that’s different.

  22. “…Because we told them about the biological basis to sex differentiation: women have two X chromosomes and a vagina; men have an X and a Y chromosome and a penis.”

    It’s a common misconception that X and Y chromosomes determine whether you develop as male or female. In fact, all being XX or XY does is determine whether you develop ovaries or testicles. That’s all. Whether you develop as male or female appears to entirely depend on what hormones are present during the time your prenatal development is taking place, and it’s easy to find instances in medicine that prove this is the case. For instance, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS), and Swyer’s Syndrome, are two conditions in which genetically male (XY) people develop as female. People with these conditions are born looking like baby girls, and grow up to become people who both look and behave just like ordinary women (to the point where the condition often isn’t even spotted until, as teenagers, they fail to start menstruating).. Likewise, there’s a condition called De La Chappelle syndrome in which genetically female (XX) people develop as male (in this case because the SRY gene has become transposed onto one of their X chromosomes, causing them to develop testicles instead of ovaries despite being XX).

    From these conditions it’s possible to tell that testicles (or more specifically, androgenic hormones produced in the testicles) are what cause male development to occur, and in the absence of those hormones, development occurs as female instead. XX and XY chromosomes have no bearing on what sex you develop as, beyond determining whether you develop ovaries or testicles.

    We have the illusion of a binary because most people undergo gonadal development according to what their genes dictate, and their testicles or ovaries function normally throughout their prenatal development. However, if anything goes wrong with gonadal hormone production during the time your prenatal development is taking place, it’s easy to end up in a situation where some of your development has occurred as male and some as female, or intermediate between male and female. Transgenderism is one possible outcome of this happening, and appears to be the result of having typical androgen levels for your genetic sex during the first trimester (when genital development takes place), but androgen levels closer to the opposite sex during the second and/or third trimester (when the main thing still ongoing is brain development.

    1. I am one of the people you mention, although in my case, it is not CAIS, but PAIS (the “P” stands for “partial”). On the Quigly-scale I’m a five, so you have to take a very close look, to see that I’m different.

      Kate’s text did actually scare me. If she thinks like all that about trans-women, what must she think about intersex-people! I match exactly her description of the predatory misysgonist tans-person: I look like a woman, I talk like a woman, I act like a woman. If she met me on the street, she would not be able to spot me.
      And yet, by her definition, I am a man (medical literature sees this differently, btw. since most people with AIS identify as female, literature refers to us as women. But hey, medicial journals are mostly written by men, so ignore that!). I am genetically male, and although I don’t have a penis, my vagina is, in Kate’s own words “a reduction of women to a set of holes that combines misogyny, porn and rape culture in one”, because there isn’t anything attached to it. I don’t have the internal organs, that seem to be so important for womanhood (and my internal testes have been removed when I was a kid, because then it was still believed AIS led to a highly increased risk of testicular cancer).

      I was, naturally, bullied a lot at school (and my teacher, who knew about my condition, referring to me as “it” was not really helping, although she said is was a “joke”). Nowadays, it’s a lot easier, because in most situations, I pass as a woman, so I can decide whom to tell, and whom not to tell. Interestingly, internet aside, the most abuse, I receive, comes from women, not from men. Men often ask me things like “Can you have sex?” (yes, I can), it’s women who reject me, because “You are not a woman!”.

      I’d really be interested what Kate’s view on people like me is. Strictly following her own line of argument, she would have to force me to dress and behave like a man, because me living as a woman, is threatening and insulting to all “real” women.
      If not, where is the difference between me living as a woman, and any trans-woman living as a woman, and why is that so different?

  23. As a trans man I can’t disagree with you more. Simply look at the facts. You say trans women have male privilege yet there are trans women being murdered simply for existing. You say women are compassionate, empathetic, nurturing yet you are none of these things. Gender is not determined by the tiniest part of genetic code and genitalia. Gender is so much broader than that. Look into the structure of the brain, when the white matter in a trans woman’s brain was compared to that of a cis man and a cis woman, it was far more similar to the woman’s than the man’s. There are also parts of genetics which play a role in gender, not biological sex (if you need more detail google it because I’m not a scientist). Some of your points did make some sense but there was so much rubbish that it just discredited everything slightly accurate you said. Your argument about the rape shelter was just ridiculous. By your logic I am a woman, I have two X chromosomes, a vagina and I am quite emotionally feminine, however I would not be allowed to work in one of these shelters and quite rightly so. But if women are allowed to work there then I should be because a little girl that’s been raped would just see a women in men’s clothes with muscles, a beard, a deep voice and wouldn’t be distressed at all. Honestly I think I’d be very good at working somewhere like that but that’s beside the point.

    It actually disgusts me that you think you are the one with a lack of privilege here when you get to use a public bathroom without fear, are allowed to do anything any woman can do and are treated like an actual human being. You are not going to be bullied because of your gender but I faced abuse from my father, abuse from my classmates, years of bullying, being turned down for opportunities and more just because I’m trans. Don’t make the kind of statements you’re making when you clearly lack an ability to empathise (a female trait according to you) with people discriminated against. People like you are the reason that people like me have to take pills everyday and draw things on our arms so that we don’t harm or kill ourselves.

    Terminology is something you have to be very particular with, but since you don’t seem to own a dictionary I’ll fill you in. Male and female are terms referring to biological sex (chromosomes and genitalia) whereas man and woman are terms referring to gender identity. For example I am a female and a man. Biological sex, gender identity and gender expression (how you look) are not remotely linked. You can wear a dress and still be a man but you can also wear a dress and be a trans woman. Trans women aren’t men in dresses, they’re women in dresses. Clothing has nothing to do with your gender.

    To be honest, I care that there are people out there who hold these beliefs but as long as they don’t act on them then that’s fine. You’re wrong in so many ways but if you stay away from our community and just let us live our lives then I don’t really care. Trans women using the women’s bathroom really won’t have an impact on you because all they are going to do is go in a private cubicle, use it, wash their hands, maybe do their makeup or hair then leave. That has no effect on you whatsoever. If you see a trans woman in the toilets just ignore her, she has her own stuff to be thinking about and dealing with and she doesn’t need to add you to the list. The trans agenda is not undermine cis people but to be treated like human beings, the way you are. Because when it comes down to it, that’s all we are. Human beings. You and I are made of the same stuff so can’t we just get along? Or at least can’t you just let us live and ignore us? We aren’t here to hurt you, our existence barely impacts you, we’re just trying to live in a way that makes us happy like everybody else.

    (I apologise if I made any mistakes with my English, it’s not my first language and even though I’m quite confident with it I still make mistakes. Feel free to correct any mistakes I made. 저의 모국어는 국어입니다)

  24. I’d normally stay away from a blog like this because a ‘safe space for prejudice’ is often guarded jealously and dissenting voices edited out. However, to her credit I appreciate that Kate is evidently not this way inclined: On the basis that Luna’s posts have been allowed to stand and there’s sufficient evidence of dialectical discourse to believe that my contribution may also stand and thus be worth my time it takes to write it.

    I’d like to start by suggesting that this particular struggle is played out by a minority of women and trans women who are pre-disposed to do so – the overwhelming majority, myself included, are more keen to get on with their lives peacefully. I find it even a little amusing that a ‘trigger warning’ was considered necessary for referencing Kate’s piece which is essentially a repetitive stereotyped narrative that most trans people have been exposed to many times before. Similarly, I laughed when Kate demanded citations from Luna, having provided none whatsoever herself. I’m happy to provide citations, since the precedent has been demanded and I trust any rebuttal will reciprocate this 🙂

    Psychologist Stoller (1976), thought that transgender identity was entirely due to nurture, his idiographic etiology citing 9 cases which produced the shock of recognition in me: my upbringing would have been a perfect 10th example. He described extreme and protracted symbiosis / engulfment by the mother delighted to have a beautiful son. He’s not kidding, I lived for my mother and we were inseperable. I even had a step in the kitchen to enable me to reach the worktops to help. My mother was so dominant that she determined my O-level, A-level and university subjects and unable to let go, she became the unwelcome third person in both my sister’s and my marriages. My mother, true to Stoller, even admitted wanting to be a boy until puberty. In Stoller’s extremely Freudian view, my mother had extreme penis envy and her obsession with me was due to her finally fabricating a penis of her own, so she saw me as her penis, not as a person. I don’t buy that, because my sister was similarly engulfed. I see a woman desperate to possess children. The key point, however, is that this extreme symbiosis is from birth onwards, transgender identity is already forming by age 1 and is more or less complete by age 3. The evidence of it being non-conflictual (and therefore, according to Stoller, not a perversion) comes in the absence of the oedipus complex. Herein lies the ridiculousness of the title of this post in ascribing masculinity and misogyny to people whose developmental path precluded this. Consider instead the abject misery of being obliged to play out an assigned gender role that is at odds with one’s sense of self. My private hell was going from a mixed infant school into a boys’ junior school and thereafter only single-sex education until university. Imagine a girl being forced to play rugby with boys and maybe you can start to empathise.

    However, Stoller’s contribution, being so dated is limited in use to the behavioural vignettes, not his comparaive / binarist attempts at explanation. Kohut (1971) explains the situation from the mother’s perspective much better – the infant is the mother’s “selfobject” and the problem is essentially that the mother treats the infant as an extension of themselves, failing to recognise the infant as an autonomous being with the right to self-determination. In case this is coming across as a little misogynistic, it’s time to involve the father and hold him to account. Basically, he was disengaged, disinterested and failed to provide an appropriate role model. In a word: absent. Had he intervened, the outcome would have been different. According to Stoller, there’s a window of opportunity in which to induce the oedipus complex therapeutically within the normal developmental time frame of age 5-7 but thereafter transgender identity is concrete and remains intrinsically bisexual beause of the lack of oedipal conflict to resolve it. The challenge for the contemporary psychologist is to distinguish trans children from gay/lesbian children, which is difficult largely because fof the biological element which I’ll come on to – the etiology is really of many shades, not clear-cut. Moreover, if Stoller were right, children raised outside heteronormative environments would have similar issues and there’s no evidence to support this that I’m aware of.

    From Fairbairn’s (1952) perspective, the consequences of failure of recognition of the infant by the parents on ego development are profound, there being only modest discrepancies between the object relations theories of Fairbairn, Klein and Winnicott. Winnicott sums up the wretchedness of the outcome: “The mother gazes at the baby in her arms, and the baby gazes at his mother’s face and finds himself therein… provided that the mother is really looking at the unique, small, helpless being and not projecting her own expectations, fears, and plans for the child. In that case, the child would find not himself in his mother’s face, but rather the mother’s own projections. This child would remain without a mirror, and for the rest of his life would be seeking this mirror in vain.” Gardner (2004) provides an idiographic vignette, a salient observation being that it can be envisaged as an infant being raised by a six year old. It’s not going to end well, I hope that’s self-evident. My mother deprived me of my transitional object (a plush panda) when she was angry with me – very much the jealous response of a 6 year old, not of an adult, but I forgive her for everything and don’t blame her for anything because she’s equally a product of her infancy during WW2. She was a loving and devoted mother with her own challenges.

    However, Stoller’s belief that it was entirely due to nurture is dated. The Kohutian / Fairbairnian perspective would posit in that case that all transgender people would necessarily have borderline symptoms as an equal and opposite reaction to maternal narcissism. However, in reality, few trans folk and their mothers would meet these criteria and there are more borderline people who are not transgender, which points to the supremacy of natural influences.

    Prof. Hines (2005) started her distinguished career studying Diethylstilbestrol, a highly potent, carcinogenic synthetic estrogen that was routinely administered to pregnant women for a host of conjected reasons from the 1930s to the 1970s, when it surfaced as a scandal arguably greater in scale than that of Thalidamide. Over thousands of studies, there’s overwhelming evidence of its impact on foetal development, including gender identity. Simply put, exogynous estrogens prevent masculinisation of the default female foetal brain, including minimised cerebral lateralisation and this has consequential impacts on spatial and language abilities and particularly handedness. You’ll find trans people are disproportionately left handed or ambidextrous. My mother received estrogen to preserve her pregnancies, my sister and I were the products of interventions, our miscarried siblings the products of non-interventions. Given a choice of being trans or being miscarried, I’d obviously choose to live.

    By my reasoning, drawing from Hines, the current ‘explosion’ of trans people has less to do with increasing societal acceptance and more to do with the prevalence of exogynous estrogens. Envisage the woman who uses oral contraception and is either erratic in taking them or unable to absorb them adequately, perhaps due to a bout of gastroenteritis or other illness. She believes she is protected, but is not, becomes pregnant and unknowingly continues taking her contraceptives, thereby unwittingly providing a supply of exogynous estrogens to her foetus. By the time it becomes obvious that she’s pregnant, it’s too late. If medical records were kept from conception rather than from birth (in effect the year before birth being copied from the mother’s medial records) then such causaton would be easily provable, but until that happens, the correlation between increasing numbers of trans people and availability of exogynous estrogens is all we have to rely on. By rule of thumb, it’s now accepted that outcomes from infancy are about 2/3 nature, 1/3 nurture, but after infancy, with language having achieved primacy in thought, nature plays a decreasing role, it’s largely nurture.

    So where does this leave us? The chalk-and-cheese gulf between Kate’s position and mine strikes me as the difference between belief and science. Some trans people believe that trans people ‘just are’ and they’re the ones most likely to get stuck in this cycle of dabating their identities. From my perspective, my identity is not up for debate, the suggestion that I’m appropriating womanhood is ludicrous. I’m just being myself and the right to self-determination is the most fundamental human right. Self-actualisation is achieved by surgery and if you pause to think about it, could you envisage for one moment anyone who has a shred of masculinity seeking to lose their primary sexual organs? It’s traumatic not fitting into a neat stereotypically hetero-cisnormative box, yet self-acceptance is vastly preferable to purpetual depression and suicidal thought. Disowned and disinherited by my mother, divorced and managed out of my job for having the audacity to be true to myself….and then some believe it has something to do with male privilege and wanting to invade female spaces?

    So what are we really talking about? In a word: recognition. Recognition is a critical aspect of Butler’s (1990) theory. I’d go further, however, returning to Hegel (1807) and argue that all social roles are performative, not only gender. Theresa May is a leader by declaring herself as such and being recognised as such, irrespective of her actual ability to lead, which is now under scrutiny. Recognition is central to this long running spat with neither side truly willing to recognise and understand the other. Kate’s pain is real and legitimate and I recognise it as such, however it’s perceived injustice heaped upon injustice. Trans women are raped, irrespective of our state of transition. Does Kate really want to deny us access to rape crisis assistance? Is our violation and trauma somehow less valid? That’s lack of recognition, again, however, it would be equally wrong to fail to recognise the visual impact of testosterone poisoning on the physique of some trans women on some traumatised cis women and girls. In these anti-trans narratives I see a particularly focused flavour of man hating, with assumed mal-intent, completely failing to understand that trans women may eventually have been socialised as males, but it came too late, years after failing to be recognised as autonomous beings, and its those earliest years of infancy which determine the outcome. Simply put, failing to recognise trans people’s distinctive plight is analogous to men failing to recognise women’s distinctive plight. They are respectively transmisogyny born out of cisgender privilege and misogyny born out of male privilege. I’d suggest to Kate that there’s nothing to be gained by one underprivileged minority trampling on another. It’s the route to the bottom not the top. Allport (1954) is still the thought leader on this, 60 years later. I’m resisting the temptation to dive into his trait psychology, because this reply is practically an essay already, but it’s there to be drawn on if needed.

    I’ll finish with a concilliatory thought. What’s the difference between chimpanzees and bonobos? The glib answer is “the river Congo” because neither swims and this is what keeps their populations apart. The biological answer is “not much”, and humans have unique parts of our genome in common with each, that they do not have in common with eachother ( whereas the social answer is “quite a lot”: the chimpanzees are patriarchal and aggressive, the bonobos are matriarchal and docile. Some anthropologists hypothesise that humans were originally matriarchal, but it inverted when we became pastoral rather than hunter-gatherers, and the formerly hunting males suddenly had far too much time on their hands. If we’re going to survive as a species without trashing our planet’s ecosystem, an egalitarian matriarchal society would be a very good way to bring it about. Faveret (2015) has gone further down this route than Zizek, but it’s all derived from Hegel (1807) and I’d suggest that understanding and respecting everyone’s legitimate need for recognition is the way forward.

    Allport, G. (1954) The Nature of Prejudice
    Butler, J. (1990) Gender Trouble
    Fairbairn, R. (1952) Psychoanalytic Studies of the Personality: The Object Relation Theory of Personality
    Faveret, M. (2015) The Prisoner’s Dilemma from Hegel to Lacan
    Gardner, F. (2004) To enliven her was my living: Thoughts on compliance and sacrifice as consequence of malignant identification with a narcissistic parent. British Journal of Psychotherapy 21(1)
    Hegel, G. (1807) Phänomenologie des Geistes
    Hines, M. (2005) Brain Gender
    Kohut, H. (1971) The Analysis of the Self: A Systematic Approach to the Psychoanalytic Treatment of Narcissistic Personality Disorders
    Stoller, R. (1976) Sex and Gender, Volume II: The Transsexual Experiment

  25. This is a well written article that highlights both points of views..

    “Anyone born a man retains male privilege in society; even if he chooses to live as a woman—and accept a correspondingly subordinate social position—the fact that he has a choice means that he can never understand what being a woman is really like. By extension, when trans women demand to be accepted as women they are simply exercising another form of male entitlement”

    “All this enrages trans women and their allies, who point to the discrimination that trans people endure; although radical feminism is far from achieving all its goals, women have won far more formal equality than trans people have. In most states, it’s legal to fire someone for being transgender, and transgender people can’t serve in the military. A recent survey by the National Center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force found overwhelming levels of anti-trans violence and persecution.”

  26. Well written, Kate. Thank you. The replies are certainly all over the map. Despite what some responders have claimed, I didn’t find your post to be anti-trans but simply standing up for hard-won women’s rights, such as the right to safe spaces free from male aggression and violence. Some of the replies certainly prove your point. When I’ve posted on this topic I’ve also been verbally attacked and called names. I support the rights of trans people to be themselves and to live freely and safely, but not at the expense of the rights of women and girls to also live freely and safely.

    Different groups of people can talk to each other and reach workable solutions if they show respect to each other. Calling people names and threatening violence shuts down the communication. I, as a woman and a lesbian, have experienced my share of discrimination and abuse. I don’t need and won’t put up with more from transwomen. I support their right to be themselves but I won’t be bullied out of the same rights for myself. When I was in college it was called “lateral aggression”: instead of taking on the real enemy, the patriarchal structure of our society, oppressed people sometimes attack other oppressed people.

    Best wishes to you, Kate, and here’s wishing that we all have the chance to create the lives we want.

  27. I do agree that transwomen are misogynistic. I had a trans woman friend that told me (about vaginas) “I don’t trust anything that bleeds for a week and doesn’t die.” I was like uh… heads up girl, women don’t talk like that.. women are certainly inherently more loving. In fact, I almost jumped on the tranny bandwagon as a ‘transguy.’ It was at the women’s march in DC when I realized how beautiful and peaceful and loving women are. There was ONE FIGHT the entire time and it was between two men (go figure). Who needs more testosterone and aggression in the world? We all need to channel our feminine energy not just women, all humans. Our world is at a massive imbalance of masculine/feminine energy. Our males are out of control and our females are fighting to keep up with their greed and hostility… the world needs feminine energy.. badly.. even all the name calling on this blog. Women, take a step back. Don’t stoop. We don’t need to prove we can be just like them… We need to show the world what we are made of ((LOVE))

  28. There is a of hateful speech here. Women are more than their anatomy, yes. And as such transwomen are women, even if they were not born that way. Furthermore, any woman, trans or not can use the bathroom while I am in there if that bathroom makes them more comfortable. To say transwomen are merely men in a dress is reductive.

    On the other hand I know the feeling of a transwomen discussing why they made the transition and reducing womanhood down to long pretty hair and manicures. It makes me want to scream, “You can be a man and paint your nails and grow out your hair! And if I have short hair and unpainted nails that doesn’t make me any less woman!”

    I think it would help if transwomen didn’t reduce womanhood down to the superficial when they discussed being a woman. But I also think gender identity is a personal expression, not a dictated one.

    So I guess I feel like I understand part of what you are saying. There are times when some transwomen wade into the territory of culture appropriation, and they need to embrace the entire culture more before distorting what we as women are all about. Just like sporting a bindi with zero clue or respect for what it means culturally is offense, spouting off what it means to be a woman without taking time to walk the path of being a woman is offensive. I just think we can share that message and maintain love and respect for those who feel like they belong as part of the sisterhood regardless of whatever genitals they were born with.

  29. Trans ideology is so regressive, trying to categorise people as women because they like long hair and dresses is 1950s ridiculous. Biology matters. Biology is what unites females as a class. However a Trans Identifying Male identifies, they’re still male.

  30. great article. gender dysphoria/body dysphoria are trauma symptoms. transwomen are not and will never be women. no matter how hard i wish i was a bird, i’m not one. even if i make myself some wings and start acting like a bird, i’m still not one.

  31. I am intersex. Your arguments are very ignorant and come from a place of fear and hatred. I have been scared of men. I am 5’1 have been attacked by cis men twice my size. I have been scared for my life and felt I was going to die from that. I have a vagina. I have feared for being raped and can empathize with your fears. I understand where you are coming from, and I’m telling you that you are wrong. Just because I have a vagina doesn’t mean I’m a woman. I was raised and seen as female for all my life because people couldn’t think outside a stupid binary box. And only recently I have been able to be myself. I identity as genderqueer or intersex. I have lived as both genders and am in between them and I understand the differences between both intimately. My biology isn’t XX or XY. Your view of biologically is extremely narrow minded and demonstrably false like your view of gender and people in general. I can’t even begin to tell you how wrong you are. Articles like this encourages violence against trans women and gender non conforming individuals like myself. The world is so much bigger than your own worldview and what you have seen of it. Science is so much bigger. There are people like me that defy all your careful arbitrary boxes you want to keep people in. Gender isn’t a binary system. Biolicalcsex isn’t even a binary system. It never has been. Have you even seen national geographic? Sex Gender shit in nature can get crazy. And there are millions of millions of people like me out there. (Intersex. I’ve met them.) Gender is a spectrum or an array.. Trans women ARE women. All the ones I know are just like any other woman I’ve met, and definitely more empathetic than you. They are women, women who you are advocating against. Are you really that cold hearted hat you would refuse safety and shelter to someone (regardless of gender). Anyone who needs it? You want to talk children what about that trans child who got kicked out of the house and is living on the street? Who if left out in the street or forced to go to a men’s shelter has a HIGHER chance of being dead in the morning than a CIS woman because people are more likely to attack her. You should be ashamed of yourself. I would be ashamed to know you. You need to find some empathy and compassion. Stop thinking you know everything. I notice you don’t talk about trans men at all do you? That’s because you are taking your Misandry out on trans women. Look I’m not a huge fan of cis dudes in general either a lot of the time but trans women are NOT them. And I’ve met plenty of intersex people who are also transitioning because of medical reasons or because they feel the wrong gender was forced on them at birth because again, we live in an idiotic system where people like me are invisible. Fuck that. And you also need to realize that you are spreading sexist conventional anti feminist beauty rules by saying trans women aren’t women. Most I know are gorgeous in the feminine conventional sense and you couldn’t tell them apart from a cis woman, but those that aren’t? They are no less beautiful. You need to realize that not everything that you don’t understand is scary. And that your unjustified fear is actually hurting people. The trans women I know that are just beginning their transition and don’t fit the feminine beauty standards deal with more than you can imagine. I’ve dealt with more than you can imagine. I’ve dealt with it too. Our feelings of dysphoria are only exacerbated by trolls like you who think your being radical feminists when our being the exact opposite. Radical feminism is about ANYONE who is kicked down by the patriarchy. Trans women and gender non conforming people being high on that list. People of color being high on that list. Check the murder rate of trans women of color and you’ll see that your assertions are demonstrably false. These are not men to fear. These are women being prayed upon and have violence against them and systemic abuse against them and are murdered in higher rates than cis women. There are going to be assholes in every populations of people. Take yourself. I generally prefer women but you Miss strike me as one I would not want to associate with. Caitlyn Jenner is an asshole I would equally not want to associate with. I am sorry that some trans women might have been angered by you into maybe taking their comments too far. That is never okay. However, you are wrong. Your views are demonstrably proven false by biology and psychology and by spreading your false toxic views you are hurting some of the most vulnerable women and girls out there. And also people like me. Who are in between and do not fit in your us versus them gender war. Please stop hurting vulnerable women and people in general with your inaccurate views and words.

    1. Are you threatening to shoot me? If anything happens to me, hiding behind an anonymous avatar doesn’t make you untraceable. Just a friendly reminder.

      1. Are you insinuating trans people aren’t human????

        Way to jump on the oppressor bandwagon when it doesn’t suit your cause HYPOCRITE

        1. It doesn’t insinuate that or anything else. My post says transwomen are men. It’s stated very clearly.

      2. Is this person a “feminist”, or a christian conservative? Can’t tell the difference. Never could. I remember when a bunch of TERFs tried to doxx me, and out me to my bosses in a place that would have fired me overnight. This would have resulted in me starving to death that winter effectively. Lovely people.
        Yet, you have the nerve to write this apologetic piece of filth?
        I always had a feeling that left leaning trans women were onto something. . . that there must be some kind of reason as to why they’re all so angry. I get it. I really do. I hope you die slowly, and painfully. Your role in perpetuating oppression earns you that.

  32. For your erasure or transmen, reinforcement of gender roles, pre-discredited second-wave fuckery and general TERFiness (which is an acronym for Trans-Excluding Reactionary Feminist, not radical, cuz you ain’t radical, just an unwitting subset of patriarchy), I bestow upon you the shame of a Billy Madison quote.

    Miss Gould, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent rant were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on the internet is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  33. This whole “biological fact” idea really bugs me because it just isn’t true. Contemporary academia clearly distances both sex and gender from biology and, even if it didn’t, science itself disagrees on the whole two sex’s thing.

    Accepting Simone de Beauvoir’s (and 98% of all modern feminist theorists assertion that gender is a social construction) one must recognize that then gender is divorced from sex and can be created upon any “body” even one that does not have the markers for gender, as a wholly social creation. Further, then one must question why sex holds significance as a category at all and realize that it only holds significance in its relation to gender i.e. it is a gendered category. Through this basic line of thought (which I am surely not doing justice) it should become clear that the “biological fact” idea which seems so “common sense” is not common sense at all but is, instead, a position (born out of the patriarchy – but let me not get into that) that is highly political but that is simply positioned as universal truth. The point of the matter is that BOTH sex and gender are social constructions created to prop up the patriarchy.

    There is large scale cultural evidence for this ( as well as scientific backing (Fausto-Sterling, A. (1987). Society Writes Biology/Biology Constructs Gender. Daedalus, 61-76.) and a very malleable history of gender (Cott, N. F. (1978). An Interpretation of Victorian Sexual Ideology, 1790-1850. Signs, 219-236.)

    The TERF position (because that is what it is) is built upon no such evidence and its cries to “science” are highly outdated – I am sorry.

  34. Eat shit and die terf. You are literally making it such a big deal that you’re cis. What’s so special about that? You’re just trying to bring trans women down because you think they’re a “threat”? The only threat here is you devaluing trans women because you are taking very extreme examples of very few trans women threatening to cause you harm. Besides, why would you take these threats seriously? It’s only reasonable when you’re such a piece of shit.

  35. i get it, it’s a clickbait title, so sure okay. reading the article though, ugh…. misogynist? why? we’re women, and we love ourselves! “colonisation” of bodies? “invading” womens’ spaces? what kind of fearmongery nonsense is this?

    i’m so tired of all this cissexist hate. i can’t anymore. i just can’t. i think ciswomen as a whole need to take a long look in the mirror and see where they are, and decide whether they want to be on the right side of history or not. trans* rights has largely been winning battle after battle. trans women (and men) have been wildly flourishing. these successes only help everyone, yet every step of the way, ciswomen push back and try to decry us as insidious villains and violent monsters. we do have many cis allies who can see through nonsensical articles such as this one and i appreciate them all, it’s just really disheartening to see thinkpieces like this that act as though we’re not trying to improve everyone’s lives.

    i honestly believe we’ve reached a point where ciswomen (#NotAllCiswomen) are starting to detriment society. they’re constantly fighting against progress. i can’t tell whether it’s internalized misogyny or a fear of losing what a lifetime of living in what patriarchy has told them is theirs. so some words were changed to be more inclusive–this makes it an attack on women? why can’t ciswomen understand that when trans speak,we speak out of love and to include, but when ciswomen deny gnc and trans* identities, it’s exclusionary and harmful? this is why ciswomen are becoming outmoded. they’ve turned to snark and cynicism, where we come from a place of love and tolerance.

    okay. i’ll stop. this fight is really exhausting. i just want to hold hands and love everyone!

  36. I love how this bitch predictably ignores any comment that floods her already leaky argument full of even more holes. The intersex person alone destroys her. Say nothing of the others who are just bringing up college bio 101. What’s the term for an ignorant redneck across the pond Kate? That’s all you are.

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